Start of profile - Issue or not?

Tell us about your experience, ask if you're unsure of something, let us know if you have a problem.
Geronimo
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1306

Post by Geronimo »

Wayne wrote: Mon 03 Aug, 2020 5:33 pm Hi @Geronimo

Took a look at the Log 140.

you are sitting on the lower end of the main voltage . 231 V . Is there a plug in the house we can get more out of ? Maybe plugged into the socket on a stove or closest to the main DV board ..

This could be the reasoning for the longer initial heat . Also the fact that there was a lower ambient temp . This is really a stretch in my opinion .

Also , Please could you confirm what coffee you were using in the roast .
Hi Wayne

Thanks for reply in last 2 posts. I don’t have many options with respect to power. I will try and pick a time that the voltage is better. That roast for log 140 is a pre-blend so not a true indication for a single bean. But typically the actual curve and design curve initially (Before crossing) does not match even on single origins, and maybe is the temperature as mentioned by nrdlnd and yourself.

I can’t roast inside and have to plug directly into a wall plug in carport, because chaff particles leak out of chaff collector, and under the plastic that the chaff collector sits, as does not sit perfectly flat due to warping due to heat.

What I will do is pick a warmer day and try some Brazilian Cerrado, and maybe a couple of other beans using the other profiles. I’ll also try one batch of Brazilians on 0-1200 and next altitude and see if any difference.

I’m typically using 120 grams, but have tried 100g.

I will try and video the start of roast also. Can videos be up loaded here or not?

As a suggestion I think it might be helpful for you guys post videos of what is deemed normal for bean circulation in the early stages (first minute) of a roast for say 100g and 120g, and with dense and less dense beans, such as Brazil and Ethiopia as examples. Also what roast colour and overall eveness should we be expecting for each of the 3 main roast levels as described in your roast profile notes. Maybe more so the “Rest” profiles, otherwise it gets a bit silly doing all 12 profiles.

I’m sure I’m not the only that doesn’t know what to expect on what is normal for the circulation, bean colour and evenness.

Is there a reason the vents in the roasting chamber are not angled a bit more (maybe Chris can answer this), to stop beans from swirling around, rather than bubbling a bit more, which is more noticeable on lower bean loading, and some beans are in contact with the metal chamber more initially.

Cheers
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Wayne
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1307

Post by Wayne »

Thank you Geronimo

I have looked at the log again . Please try get better output . Your roast log is showing me a max voltage of 1.125 kw . We would want to see adleast 1.200 kw . Looking at the log you sent me and the low voltage , the roaster seems to be working correctly and the profile result is what is expected . No Flat line on the voltage curve and tracking nicely on the profile line .

The slight tipping of the the coffee can be a result of both : incorrect calibration and low input power .

I would be more inclined to say low input to be honest with you .. I'd love to assist you with further calibration BUT I'd rather want to attempt this once we have a better volt input . Your calibration is sitting at 0.88 at the moment . I also picked up your cooling calibration has also been recalibrated . It should be adjusted to 1 . This ultimately will not make a difference to end roast level or time .

The Blend would definitely have an effect on the overall colour . If there is brazil in the blend . This could be the reason for the tipping . We will only know after the higher volt and - if we need to - Calibration .

Please could you tell me what is in the blend. Do you know how old the green is in the blend ? This density and age of the green has an effect on the roasting . Let's not worry about this now . Just the blend make up if you can .

To address the fins in the chamber . The fins are calibrated to allow optimal thermal flow during roasting . They are calibrated under test conditions . Instead of us opening and closing them manually . We use the fan calibration to adjust this .

As for the bean mass moving in the KAFFELOGIC . Would you be open to me sending you the video on email ? Or could you give me some time and I will figure out how to upload the type of file to the forum .

Please could you send me a video or picture of your chaff collector .. I would like to show Chris and get back to with a solution to make your roasting experience a better one . How old is the KAFFELOGIC ?

Please could you send these to : [email protected]

I hope this helps you . I look forward to hearing from you ..
Geronimo
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1308

Post by Geronimo »

Wayne wrote: Tue 04 Aug, 2020 3:54 pm Blend would definitely have an effect on the overall colour . If there is brazil in the blend . This could be the reason for the tipping
Hi Wayne

The tipping photos are for Brazil Cerrado only, and are from The Coffee Workshop.

To be honest I didn’t know much about tipping till I took my roast to a roaster and asked if they could tell me what was wrong, as I wasn’t having much luck.

I’ll get back to you on the other points. If I can’t get back to you this week, I’ll leave it for a few weeks as I’m going back and forth from Auckland to Tauranga to look after my 97 year old Grandmother. A bit hard to take the roaster on the bus.

Cheers
lancruiser
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1309

Post by lancruiser »

Geronimo wrote: Tue 04 Aug, 2020 4:49 pm To be honest I didn’t know much about tipping till I took my roast to a roaster and asked if they could tell me what was wrong, as I wasn’t having much luck.
Geronimo,

I had the same issue with another Brazil bean.

https://kaffelogic.com/community/viewto ... ?f=6&t=171

I have never found a profile that completely eliminates tipping for this but I was able to reduces it somewhat by using a profile that has gentler heat and longer roast time.

Having said that, my roasts do taste quite decent though.
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Wayne
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1310

Post by Wayne »

Thank you @landcruiser

I would recommend the 0-1200 m rest or RTD .

The profile is created through an average based of roasting Brazil Santos and Brazil Cerado and 3 other super low altitude origins .

Through all the origins - no tipping was recorded .
Geronimo
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1316

Post by Geronimo »

Wayne wrote: Tue 04 Aug, 2020 8:30 pm I would recommend the 0-1200 m rest or RTD .

The profile is created through an average based of roasting Brazil Santos and Brazil Cerado and 3 other super low altitude origins .

Through all the origins - no tipping was recorded .
Hi Wayne

Re: Tipping with this Roaster

Managed to sneak in some roasts yesterday, and voltage was acceptable. I have lightened Roast 2's end view a bit to show the extent of tipping.

The actual plan view of roasts are slightly darker than what is depicted on screen. No white balance adjustment, therefore not 100 percent accurate.

In summary both roasts carried out an hour apart. Temperature had decreased a couple of notches at around 5pm when the second one was completed.

Both roasts using Brazil Cerrado, 0-1200m Rest profile, at roast level 5.0

I don't have anything further to add, except I did a reset prior to the first roast, just to make sure we had a level playing field. And I have a couple of videos of the first minute with the chaff collector removed for the first minute. We need to look at how we get them to you.

Not sure if its a glitch but have noticed that at the end of the roast, and in cooling cycle, the display has the total roast time in top left corner, then moving clockwise, roast level, end temperature, then cooling time, which says 00:00. This 00:00 is displayed whilst cooling is being carried out. This maybe normal, but thought I'd ask. Not that it matters much, as can go into live view.

Roast 1 Below:
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 1, 0-1200m Rest, end view.jpeg
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 1, 0-1200m Rest, end view.jpeg (2.14 MiB) Viewed 5309 times
Roast 1 Below:
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 1, 0-1200m Rest, plan view.jpeg
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 1, 0-1200m Rest, plan view.jpeg (3.4 MiB) Viewed 5309 times
Roast 2 Below:
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 2, 0-1200m Rest, end view.jpeg
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 2, 0-1200m Rest, end view.jpeg (1.64 MiB) Viewed 5309 times
Roast 2 Below:
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 2, 0-1200m Rest, plan view.jpeg
Brazil Cerrado, RL5.0, Roast 2, 0-1200m Rest, plan view.jpeg (3.34 MiB) Viewed 5309 times
Roast 1 Log Screenshot below:
log0146.png
log0146.png (44.11 KiB) Viewed 5309 times
Roast 2 Log Screenshot below:
log0150.png
log0150.png (46.48 KiB) Viewed 5309 times
Roast 1 and Roast 2 Actual logs below:
Attachments
log0150.klog
(102.96 KiB) Downloaded 255 times
log0146.klog
(98.07 KiB) Downloaded 253 times
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Wayne
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1319

Post by Wayne »

Thank you

Please can you send me the videos to [email protected]
nrdlnd
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1320

Post by nrdlnd »

Hi,
I've just roasted a Brazil Yellow Bourbon altitude about 1000m with the profile Steady&Dark II at L=4,4. There is a slight tendency to tipping on some beans not all. This bean is processed with "pulped natural". I think Brazilian beans are more sensitive to tipping for some reason. It's nothing wrong with the taste though! The beans had rested for 24 hours and the grind was a little to fine (too long brewing time) but still a very nice taste (a long aftertaste of cocao). I will adjust the grind next time. I'm inclined to accept a little tipping as long as the taste is ok. This far I've only seen this problem on Brazilians. I may try the 0-1200 profiles to see if the problem persists though.

@Geronimo: Have you tested with other Brazilians or other beans if there are more or less tipping?
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Wayne
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1322

Post by Wayne »

Thanks @nrdlnd

I have to view the roasting vids first . It could just need a fan speed calibration adjustment . If this is the case . It will solve the issue .

If the fan speed looks ok , Could just be the beans .

The development of the 0-1200 RTD /REST is based off roasting multiple low altitude origins . The bulk of this being from Brazil .

Logs look great . No issue there . So, we know that the roaster is not sick . Now we look at recalibration and then the coffee .
Geronimo
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Re: Start of profile - Issue or not?

#1324

Post by Geronimo »

nrdlnd wrote: Fri 07 Aug, 2020 2:06 am Have you tested with other Brazilians or other beans if there are more or less tipping?[/color]
As always thanks for input and your current roast/blend progress. All goes towards the learning process.

Included photos for the other roasts yesterday:

Columbia Excelso, 100g, 1200-1500m Rest, Roast Level 4.6
Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, 100g, 2000-2700m Rest, Roast Level 4.4
Guatemala Huehuetenango, 100g, 1500-2000m Rest, Roast Level 4.2

Note the beans sitting on the note paper for the Ethiopia Yirgacheffe are what I would call reject beans that I picked out after the roast.

Columbia Excelso, 100g, 1200-1500m Rest, Roast Level 4.6
Columbia Excelso, 100g, 1200-1500m Rest, Roast Level 4.6
2020-08-07 12.19.28.jpeg (4.72 MiB) Viewed 5283 times
Columbia Excelso, 100g, 1200-1500m Rest, Roast Level 4.6
Columbia Excelso, 100g, 1200-1500m Rest, Roast Level 4.6
2020-08-07 12.19.49.jpeg (902 KiB) Viewed 5283 times
Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, 100g, 2000-2700m Rest, Roast Level 4.4
Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, 100g, 2000-2700m Rest, Roast Level 4.4
2020-08-07 12.17.29.jpeg (3.18 MiB) Viewed 5283 times
Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, 100g, 2000-2700m Rest, Roast Level 4.4
Ethiopia Yirgacheffe, 100g, 2000-2700m Rest, Roast Level 4.4
2020-08-07 12.18.00.jpeg (626.04 KiB) Viewed 5283 times
Guatemala Huehuetenango, 100g, 1500-2000m Rest, Roast Level 4.2
Guatemala Huehuetenango, 100g, 1500-2000m Rest, Roast Level 4.2
2020-08-07 12.18.33.jpeg (4.15 MiB) Viewed 5283 times
Guatemala Huehuetenango, 100g, 1500-2000m Rest, Roast Level 4.2
Guatemala Huehuetenango, 100g, 1500-2000m Rest, Roast Level 4.2
2020-08-07 12.18.57.jpeg (1.07 MiB) Viewed 5283 times
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