Steady and Dark

[nrdlnd]

nrdlnd - great observation and feedback. Thanks. I'm working my way back to dark. My very first roast was Colombia Melky Chevaz with k-logic classic at RL 4.0 and it tasted burnt to me. Infact, they improved with much aging but I never did get to finish them. Since then I've erred to lighter roasts but am too often getting grassy fruity flavours whereas I'm trying to get to caramel/chocolate. Thanks for your work here

Thank you for your very kind encouragement! I have not found the holy grail but the KL roaster and the fantastic people behind it and a very nice community! For me the most difficult and at the same time the most desireable when it's about coffee is to be able to make a good espresso. The roasts that fails the espresso test do often work well for more regular filter coffee in my household.

It may be easier to get good results with blends. This is a good resource on the net: https://library.sweetmarias.com/blending/

The lighter roasts don't work so well for me as they are often too acidic for espresso. It takes a long time and a lot of coffee to test all the profiles that's now avaiable for the KL. Just now I prefer more medium dark and the caramel/chocolate you are talking about. Maybe the long second stage (Maillard reaction) of the Steady&Dark II contributes to that? I do stay though at around L 4.3-4.4. The last word is not said and I may change my mind when I've tried the other profiles!

[Beanz]

The roasts that fails the espresso test do often work well for more regular filter coffee in my household.

It may be easier to get good results with blends. This is a good resource on the net: https://library.sweetmarias.com/blending/

(First attempt at grabbing quotes!)

Nrdlnd - two GEMS in your post, for me. The alternate use of the roast, which hasn't been so flash for espresso, as pour over etc is a great idea! Having become so accustomed to my rich double espresso, I've become nervous lashing out into the realms of french press etc. Yet there is merit in the more relaxed supping of the greater (watered down) quantities vs the 5 minute espresso hit ..... with varying aftertastes...

The second is your link to the brilliant range of simple espresso recipes at Sweet Marias and the clear explanations behind them. As Angela has alluded elsewhere, we need this bank of readily available knowledge to get early and sustainable satisfaction with the KL before launching off into chasing esoteric nuanced flavours.... in my case, usually disastrous and off putting

Let's get the tried and true out there, for beginnners and those new to this machine, so we have a solid foundation before launching off into the ether!

Inspirational. Thanks nrdlnd

[nrdlnd]

@Beanz: Thank you for your kind words. That's the nice thing with a community that we can help each other and exchange experiencies. You also say: "The alternate use of the roast, which hasn't been so flash for espresso, as pour over etc is a great idea!" Yes but that doesn't mean that you can't get even better results for pour over with roasts especially designed for that brewing method! I don't want to throw away expensive beans though!

My last report on my first try with an Indian Monsooned Malabar blend (50% Monsooned Malabar, 25% Brazil Dolce Diamantina, 15% Ethiopian Sidamo, 10% Indian Monsooned Robusta.) Roasted with Steady&Dark II at L=4.4. Roast end 14:54 at 232.2 deg. DTR around 21-22% with this extended roast. Medium dark. An observation is that it's necessary to grind finer (about two steps with the Niche Zero). It has to do with the lower density of the Malabar. I do also notice a little more retention with the NZ about 0.1 g more.

Tasting brewed as a double espresso:

12 hours: rather bitter and unbalanced
60 hours: The bitterness is almost completely gone. It has a lot of dark tones including cacao but also wooden tones. It has also a citrus acidity that is rather nice. It must come from the Sidamo. I will add that there are a lot of crema.
108 hours: Balanced even when cooled. Dominating cacao with a long aftertaste of cacao. Sweeter compared to 60 hours. The citrus acidity has gone but it still has a nice acidity (not too much). A little less crema this time.
156 hours (6½ days): Brewed as double espresso at the same grind level (2.5 on the NZ). Still drinkable. First a little more bitterness that went away. A little less cacao and another taste (leather?). Less acid and maybe also less sweet. Balanced even when cooled. Crema as the last time. Difficult to remember tastes! Keeping well after almost a week! One dose left.
204 hours (8½ days): Still drinkable. About the same taste as after 156 hours.

I think it's at its best between between 2½ and 5 days rest but still drinkable after more than a week!

My base for this blend is the Monsooned Malabar and Monsooned Robusta but also the Brazil but I may try another Brazil. I may also try some other Ethiopian or exchange it for some other high grown bean.

[Beanz]

nrdlnd, sorry to go Off Topic here, after another great contribution. I've just got my Niche Zero, upgraded from Sette 270Wi, and that, along with getting a new Bezzera Duo DE machine, has had me get a Kg of Allpress Espresso so that I have a benchmark taste to fine tune the gear and get used to it. My question is that I noted you said setting NZ at 2.5. Is that correct? I have calibrated the NZ, as per instructions, and am finding grind settings, for espresso, between 18 & 21. Currently 19.5 for the Allpress, 19 for the KJM blend. If I tried 2.5 I think I would be getting baking powder.
btw, I'm loving the quietness of the NZ over the Sette. It's much slower than I thought it would be. It's a bit unnerving needing to take a bit more care to put the 18gm beans in. James Hoffman laments it not having a 60gm capacity to allow for pour overs......I digress.
Meantime, I take it that you are quite settled on the Steady and Dark II? And Pre-blended roast?

[nrdlnd]

@Beanz: Sorry I'm not sure I can help you with the NZ. Maybe you have to grind more beans in it before it "sets". In the beginning I had to adjust the setting a lot of times until I got it right. I did also calibrate the NZ in the beginning. It's the result with the espresso machine that matters. I have to change the setting all the time as it's different with different beans, different roasts and different doses of beans. When the beans age you have to change the setting also. A high brewing pressure means you have to grind finer. I don't remember my setting in the beginning but it may have been around your settings. I had to adjust to finer settings until it "stayed" and became more constant and worked with my espresso machine and its settings. Maybe I should recalibrate but the numerical number doesn't matter.

Edit: I think I started around 9-10 on the scale on the NZ. Then I bought new IMS filter baskets and was forced to grind finer. Then I got the NFC disc for the grinder and had to grind finer. Now my grind settings are between about 2.5 - 6 for espresso depending on the beans. The Monsooned Malabar is extreme as it's necessary with a very fine grind. If you are fine with your settings stay there and adjust accordingly to get the correct brewing rate and a good extraction. It's possible to measure the extraction rate with a refractometer but that may be an overcourse.

My espresso machine is a HX with a brewing group similar to an E-61. I try to get a brewing time around 25 sec but the most important is the brewing ratio (amount coffee grind to end volume espresso). 1:2 is a little too strong for me so I use to brew at a ratio around 1:2.3-2.4. The ratio is much more important than the time but I usually still want it to be around 25 sec but often it becomes 30 sec. I have a scale and a timer) As it is now my brewing pressure is a little too high and I will probably adjust it down a little to make it less sensitive to failures with tamping (then I have to adjust the grinding to courser accordingly!).

Edit: I didn't know about your espresso machine but I guess it's the Bezzera Duo DE. I'm sure it's an excellent machine. Except that my machine is a HX (heat exchange) they have many similarities. The brewing group is electrically heated with a thermostat like in your machine but it has only a single boiler but instead an effective HX. It's the German Xenia.

My machine can also give constant results but it may not have all the possibilities your new macnine has. It doesn't have a "PID" but I don't need that as the temperature is very constant already. I can adjust the temperature with the pressostat and I can also adjust brewing pressure but I have to go into the machine to do these adjustments. When and if I have made these adjustments to my satisfaction I have to adjust the grinder also. Try to find a "standard" setting that works for you otherwise there are too many variables and you will only become confused. It's the same with the KL roaster.

No I'm not settled on the Steady&Dark profile and not on preblended either and I think I've written that. This is the first preblended that I've made with the KL and it worked rather well for me with this profile. Actually much better than I could hope for! Usually I blend afterwards with already roasted beans and most of the time I drink single origin. A great advantage with preblending is that I can consume the blend when it's fresh.

Good luck!

[Geronimo]

Now my grind settings are between about 2.5 - 6 for espresso depending on the beans.

Hi

Have you recalibrated your Niche. Have a quick look at this, and fast forward a bit to get to the relevant bit. Not that it matters to much as is just a number at the end of the day.

https://youtu.be/Y4lMoJqp-Rw

Cheers

[nrdlnd]

Now my grind settings are between about 2.5 - 6 for espresso depending on the beans.

Hi

Have you recalibrated your Niche. Have a quick look at this, and fast forward a bit to get to the relevant bit. Not that it matters to much as is just a number at the end of the day.

Hi,

Thank you for your advice! But:
This is a weakness of the NZ grinder that it easily looses the so called "calibration". It's not a real calibration it does only put the scale somewhere and it's also very easy that it changes its "calibration" against your will. If you want to grind really coarse then you have to go outside of the scale so in that case it's meaningless. I have calibrated the grinder and I may do it again ater next cleaning. I do only use this grinder for espresso (finer grinds) and I know where I am on the scale and I try to avoid to move the black ring that easily gets out of "calibration". Actually it doesn't matter where you are on the scale. Stay there and make your adjustments from there. That's the "real" calibration that matters! I have another grinder for coarser grinding as I've said in another thread: https://kaffelogic.com/community/viewto ... 9&start=10
Besides: The Wilfa grinder has about the same retention as the NZ when I grind coarser for filter coffee. I don't use it for espresso so I don't know the retention at that setting. It's called "Uniform" as it has rather uniform grinds.

Cheers!

[nrdlnd]

I'm still working with this profile that seems to work well for low density beans such as the Monsooned Malabar. I stop though at L=4.4. As I'm a newbie I try to connect to more established theories about roasting and especially Scott Raos. I know that he is not undisputed though. I try to keep DTR between 20-25% as a start. He also points out the importance of a declining ROR. With the Steady and Dark II profile ROR flattens after 12 min to 6.8 to the end of the roast (no decline). I'm trying now to change the profile to a more steadily declining ROR (especially after 12 min). I have roasted a Brazilian with this modification and it went out well. Next try is with my Malabar blend so I can compare it with the roast with the unaltered profile. The roast tends to be even longer with the modification so I may call it "Steady&Long".

[theiguanaoz]

Tried this for some West Java beans and let it stay on the default level - I believe 4.8. Seems a little under roasted for what I was expecting - but also needs to rest so will try it at 3 and 5 days. Goes well with milk already - but I want to see if I can get more of the bean’s cocoa notes coming through in espresso rather than a marzipan-berry type taste. Again, will reserve final judgement for once it’s fully rested but typically I would expect those notes to be there in some form off the roast, just not as smooth as when rested

[nrdlnd]

200912_Blend_MonsoonedMalabar_DolceDiamantina_MalawiPamwamba_MonsoonedRobusta_SteadyDarkII.png (56.86 KiB) Viewed 9495 times

I have continued to work with this profile. I tried some modifications to get the ROR to decline more at the end as I was afraid the coffee should become baked. I don't think it does and the original profile works best for me at around 4.4 to 4.6. I think this profile is especially good for lower density beans. My last "Malabar blend" is with 50% Monsooned Malabar, 25% Brazil Natural (Dolce Diamantina). 15% Malawi Panwamba AA+. 10% Monsooned Robusta. Before I had 15% Ethiopian Sidamo but I exchanged it to the Malawi beans that is a little lower altitude bean (900-1100 m) even if it's fully washed. This made the blend much more balanced as I roasted them together. I've just tasted the last portion after 7 days rest and it was delicious! "A very good espresso. Balanced sweet and juicy. Chocolate aftertaste." Level 4.4, DTR 22%, Medium dark. End at 14:55 at 232,1 deg C.

A comment about grinding: I have to grind the Malabar blend very fine (low density) as it otherwise brews too fast. I want 25-30 sec brewing time and ratio around 2.2-2.5. The end volume of the espresso (concentration of the brew) is more important than brewing time for the taste even if I try to let it run for at least 25 seconds. I use a scale under the cup.

Edit: I made another blend at level 4.6 with Steady&Dark II with two kind of Brazil; Santa Alina 40g, Dolce Diamantina 40g, African Malawi Pamwamba 20g. Indian Monsooned Robusta 10g (=110g). Medium Dark (City+/Full City). No defects, evenly roasted. DTR about 20% (but I may have marked it a little late so it could have been a liitle bigger DTR).
I gave this to my son who has a rather simple De Longhi espresso machine. He said after 3 days rest: "Mild, good taste, adequate acidness, fine crema".