Kaffelogic community

As always, sorry if this has been covered previously. Please point me there if it has.

I am new to coffee roasting, & now am the proud owner of a Kaffelogic roaster.
Now the guy with all the gear & no idea, I am trying to produce a European style Italian espresso result. So far without success.

So, for those who do not want to read further I am looking for help on a suitable blend & roast level advice for an Italian espresso (with milk) blend.

Over the last few weeks I have read & heard conflicting advice regarding the above. Robusta or not? Roast levels from just above 2.5 to levels of up to 5. To roast different origin beans separately, to blending & then roasting?

I drink my espresso with milk in a latte - flat white - cappuccino form. I have been making my coffee since 1986 using a Gaggia Baby for 14 years & a Gaggia Coffee since then. I am very happy with the coffee I make given the beans & roast that suits my taste.

I have used a Mini Macho entry level conical bur grinder for the last 19 years (burs replaced as required), but have a Niche on the way. As I also enjoy Aeropress coffee & use a Bravilor filter machine for my work place. I took the plunge for the Niche as it has a much smaller retention when compared to my Macho when changing grind & beans.

Thank you for any help & advice.
Cheers, Nick.

Can you tell us some brands of coffee you have liked ?

Sounds like Southern Italian dark roasts? Robusta content % ?

Anywho I roasted a fair bit on drum over the last few years for someone that likes Sth Italian style and drinks it as a piccolo latte.

Always pre blend
Roast a little slower, right on the cusp of 2nd crack, a few crackles into cooling tray.
Declining ROR usually close to 37% / 33% / 30% = Dry / Mai / Dev
My latest KL espresso profile is pretty close in taste.

Currently I am using 25% Brazil pulped natural and 25% washed India as the base
30% washed Indonesia Java and 20% washed SHB central anything from El Salv, Guat etc works well.

If you want Robusta roast it separately into 2nd crack and age it for at least a week then add some to the blend post roast to your preferred %.

Thank you for your reply Steve.

The last time I had the flavours I am trying to create was in the UK before our migration to NZ 19 years ago. I was supplied by an Italian friend who had a restaurant. I am pretty sure it was Lavazza

espresso dark roast blend in 5kg bags. Certainly when we got to the end of the bag they were well past their best, but at that time still tasted better than many cafe's offerings.

On arrival in NZ we were very impressed with the coffee, not expecting anywhere near the quality & consistency available. We soon hooked in to the only local roaster at the time trying his various

blends. None came close to the flavours I was after, but were excellent in their own right. Our pallets adapted, but many roasts & blends have been tried to search for that flavour I remember.

My most recent roast yesterday was Brazil CHC using the profile 'Steady&DarkII' I think from you, Kaffelogic at level 4.9. I tried this today mixed with 20% Robusta roasted 1 week ago using the Kaffelogic 'Robusta' profile at level 4. This was quite good but seemed to lack a little 'body'.

I will try a blend like the one suggested. The piccolo latte sounds well up my street for my morning fix.

What roast level would you suggest starting with for the blend, & for the Robusta?
How long do you suggest to rest the blend for?
Which Robusta origin / grade would you suggest & where could I get it from? I am having a little bother finding much information for Robusta as it does not seem to be very popular in NZ.

Thank you for your time.
Cheers, Nick.

Likely you will want to roast entire blend 30 sec into 2nd crack, which from the very start of 2nd crack is usually about where 2nd crack will start "rolling".

I can not give specific numbers you require, I do not use those profiles. While I applaud the KL "push button" numbered system it really is not conducive to people learning the very basic sight, sound and smells of roasting which is actually quite valuable to getting what you want.

I also concede it may be hard for many people to look and in particular hear cracks. Ive found standing off to the side a few metres away or more makes it a lot easier to hear cracks.

Steve wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug, 2020 10:59 am While I applaud the KL "push button" numbered system it really is not conducive to people learning the very basic sight, sound and smells of roasting which is actually quite valuable to getting what you want.

Hi Steve

Do you have a glass tube fitted to your roaster for observing colour change? Or are you lifting lid to inspect with a torch? And if so the later, is there any fluctuations in curve following when lifting lid?

Cheers

No tube, gloves and a quick look. Once Ive observed / dialled in a profile a few times I leave it be.
Have not observed anything of note in the roast log from doing it, probably safe to assume it has some effect though.

The glass tube might be a good option, the way I use external ventilation would not suit it though and the amount of times ive dropped the black tube on concrete garage floor....

Good day Nick

Thank you for the thread . Its an awesome journey you are on the Kaffelogic really offers that perfect platform to experiment with and design your optimal drinking experience .

On the Gaggia you are using . Amazing machine . I have owned 2 in my life and loved every minute of them .

If I had to offer some info on your previous messages . The Lavazza you had a few years ago was most likely the Super Crema blend or Gran Espresso Dark . Super Crema years ago it was the top Italian blend Lavazza made and exported out of Italy . In the Gran Espresso , the robusta origin might have changed from 19 years ago but their robusta to Arabica ratio has always been at the 60 Robusta - 40 Arabica % , 65 Robusta - 35 Arabica % range . Typically using a Natural processed Arabica and a combination of processed method Robustas

It has always been an exceptional espresso blend and works very well in milk .

I would start with this Roast recipe above.

On the Robusta front , there is nothing wrong with using it . If you find a good fresh grade of robusta and roast it well , it will add a level of complexity to the blend that you could be looking for . At the moment , I get my Indian Cherry AB Robusta for The Coffee Workshop .
I am trying to put a capsule blend together for a customer here in Auckland and I sampled the Robusta yesterday . At a medium - Dark profile it tastes great and gives me all I want at 50% with a bit of the ashiness and roast flavour starting to lend its self but I'd expect that from that high a roast .

The 40% arabica I roasted was an Ethiopian Yirg on profile 1500 - 2000 REST and RTD at recommended end level 4.4

Roasted it on the 0 - 1200 REST profile and the RTD profile . I roasted it at the recommended end level of 4.7.

I have also roasted the robusta on the same profile at level 3.4 and it tastes awesome . Could even ave it as a single espresso or a single shot Cortado .

I think this gives you a really nice roast strategy .

Nick , I would want to understand more about what type of taste , flavour or nuance you are looking for . This way you can hone in on the result . To achieve this , I wouldn't recommend pre blending .
Roast each origin . You might have to roast the origins 2 or 3 x at different end points .

Then start the blending process. My advise when roasting the origins . Roast them on the RTD profiles . This will allow you to taste immediately and find your result quicker . Then once you have that recipe in blending , move to roasting the origins as singles on the REST profiles and then blend .

To address Steve's point on the Kaffelogic Core Profiles .
The core profiles work and can be adjusted like any other profiles made through Studio . You can adjust as you need .
What the recommended end levels do for all of us is provide a point of reference we can all communicate over . The point is made above by offering this information so that Nick can use it as a reference to start .

The alternative , is hanging around in limbo not knowing what to do and where to go . .

" Those Profiles " are there to help new / current KL users develop their own Roasting Strategy . They still allow you to adjust , hear , smell and go through all the same organic learning processes that you should go through in roasting .

Nick , in closing , this probably will take a few origin roasts to come up with the level of roasting and blend you are happy with . I look forward to going along on this journey with you .

Wayne

Steve wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug, 2020 12:35 pm No tube, gloves and a quick look. Once Ive observed / dialled in a profile a few times I leave it be.
Have not observed anything of note in the roast log from doing it, probably safe to assume it has some effect though.

The glass tube might be a good option, the way I use external ventilation would not suit it though and the amount of times ive dropped the black tube on concrete garage floor....

Thanks

Wayne wrote: ↑Tue 25 Aug, 2020 12:36 pm
To address Steve's point on the Kaffelogic Core Profiles .
The core profiles work and can be adjusted like any other profiles made through Studio . You can adjust as you need .
What the recommended end levels do for all of us is provide a point of reference we can all communicate over . The point is made above by offering this information so that Nick can use it as a reference to start .

The alternative , is hanging around in limbo not knowing what to do and where to go . .

" Those Profiles " are there to help new / current KL users develop their own Roasting Strategy . They still allow you to adjust , hear , smell and go through all the same organic learning processes that you should go through in roasting .

Nick , in closing , this probably will take a few origin roasts to come up with the level of roasting and blend you are happy with . I look forward to going along on this journey with you .

Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Just be clear, I have never commented once on the KL core profiles since they were released.
Certainly have never implied they do not work, so is it neccessary to get defensive and quote me out of context?

My response was DIRECTLY to the OP simply in that I could not advise them specific numbers to "use on those profiles". The other comment was just about coffee roasting in general encouraging others to use their senses if they can.

Thanks.

Hi Steve ..

Please relax . No harm was meant by the post .. This is not an attack at you and I think we all value your input I definitely am one of those people who follow your threads and look forward to reading your insights .

Your post was not taken as an offensive one . My response was just merely there to justify why the core profiles are there and to discuss the versatility of them . They can be used as profiles that you can hear , adapt and learn from . They are flexible . As flexible as any other profile .

The point I was making was that there is merit in the recommended end level system - the number system used to assist Kaffelogic users . It's a great tool to help roasters reference a roast profile and assist them with a good roasting strategy - especially a situation that Nick finds himself in .

If the post came across as an attack . Please know that it was not !

This Roasting forum is about learning , not attacking .

Wayne